Talk:Assignment patch
23rd Century Example Pictures I've replaced the last obscure 23rd Century badges from the animated series with more recognizable ones. And to follow the format shown with the 22nd Century display examples of two starships, a space station, and Starfleet's insignia of that time period. --AC84 22:13, 9 Nov 2005 (PST) Differing Symbols inside main assignment patches? I had never noticed before, but aside from the recognizable outer symbol on the assignment badges in TOS, the inner symbol is different for various crewmembers: Kirk has the familiar star, while McCoy has a circle (or some round shape). I headed right over here looking for further details, but found it wasnt even mentioned! Anyone know anything about this? :The symbols on the patch match each division: the star for command (gold uniforms), the circle thingy for science & medicine (blue uniforms), and some loopy symbol for engineering & security (red uniforms). If it's not in the article, that's because no one has taken the time to add it or they just forgot about it. --From Andoria with Love 15:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC) :Chapel also sometimes wore a different inner symbol -- a red cross.--DNJimerson 14:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC) :In this picture another inner symbol is shown: File:MontgomeryScott2265.jpg 11:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC) TMP -- different assignment patches? I'm not sure individual ships had different patches by the time TMP came along. Kirk wore the Enterprise crest BEFORE his meeting with Admiral Nogura, only after which was he reassigned to Enterprise. Also, no other Starfleet personnel were seen to wear anything other, with the possible exception of the Epsilon IX station -- which may not have been a Starfleet outpost; it could have been another Federation agency with clearance to monitor Starfleet channels (similar to, say, the US Coast Guard). Or it could be that it was so far out that the uniform/patch changes simply hadn't reached them yet. The Starfleet insignia on the exterior of the ship is problematic, too -- the Defiant, for example, had the same signage as the Enterprise in the TOS era. It seems unlikely that Starfleet would use different symbols between ships for only a few years and then go back to a uniform stylization, as it clearly had by the time of STII. --DNJimerson 14:48, 24 August 2006 (UTC) :Possibly. I'm pretty certain that Epsilon IX was meant to be a Starfleet station, though: the crew had Starfleet rank insignia and, though my memory is spotty at best, I think Gene wrote that it was a Starfleet base in the novelisation (not canon, I know, but it would show his intention). --Mada101 20:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC) I removed the note from the page and put it here since there seems to be no consensus on if anyone saw another patch in the film. - Archduk3 02:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC) :Assignment patches were still in use during , so they would have had to fallen into disuse sometime after 2272, when the film is believed to be set. Morgan Bateson of the was seen wearing the ''Enterprise symbol in "Cause and Effect," suggesting that assignment patches were eliminated in or prior to 2278.'' :: I've watched TMP looking for other patches; I've seen only the two - the Arrowhead and the Station. There are several explanations that would fit with the evidence of them being in SF uniforms with a non-"Fleet" arrowhead. I've also looked for assignment patches on the list of items from the It's a Wrap auction. The IAW listings have the following: :::STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE: LOT OF 6 EPSILON IX PERSONNEL ASSIGNMENT PATCHES :::The Epsilon IX station was under Starfleet Commander Branch and was a communications group and subspace transceiver during Star Trek: The Motion Picture. These six colorful patches were worn by the Epsilon IX personnel on the left breast of their uniforms. The different colors denote the various divisions. Each measures approx. 2 x 2 1/4 inches. ( http://startrekpropcollector.com/trekauctions/item.pl?i=0714 ) :: The IAW listings contain Macos, TMP Enterprise, the Caduceus, and Epsilon IX, but no TOS uniforms (excepting those from DS9 Trials and Tribbilations). There are several other patches, but those are shoulder patches. There's no reason to believe we see others, and the shots at SFHQ all show arrowhead-in-circle. I don't recall seeing the shoulder patches, but I wasnt ever looking for those. I see several main possibilities: :::(1) Certain major commands have distinctive insignia, and Epsilon IX is in a different major command (which would be consistent with USN, US Army, and USAF patterns), and could be seen as compatible with the TOS visual evidence; :::(2) The staff on Espilon IX are in a separate sub-service of Starfleet (Civil Communications or Star Fleet Intelligence Service - the later is mentioned in canon several times). :::(3) it's a unit assignment patch (but then why do we not see a different one for SFHQ) :::(4) it's a local unit authorization for on-station only use (much like USAF unit ballcaps used to be) :::(5) it's a costuming goof (and possibly an expensive one- they sold off a dozen or so sets of 6 in the IAW auction) ::My preference would lean towards major commands and/or fleets, but the evidence (especially the existence of the shoulder patches for two different groups) implies strongly sub-service. I lean towards that being the SFI insignia, since cadets, SFHQ, and the Enterprise crew all use the same arrowhead, and would be SF Fleet personnel... ::It's worth noting that the delta was used extensively on Enterprise uniforms, too - the mission patch :: Akaramis (talk) 08:56, July 6, 2017 (UTC) Apparent absence of assignment patches in new film In , it seems that all of Starfleet uses the "Enterprise" chevron, both in the 2250s (when most of the film is set) and in 2233 (when the Kelvin prologue is set). The 2250s portion is of course in the alternate reality, but the prologue uniforms are presumably the same in both realities (because they're there when Nero arrives). So, we can either conclude that Starfleet abandoned assignment patches sometime between 2161 and 2233, and brought them back for a few decades later in the 23rd century, or that the mission patch for the USS Kelvin happened to be an outline in the delta shape later used for the USS Enterprise, and in the alternate universe this insignia was adopted by all of Starfleet in memory of the Kelvin. So how do we incorporate that into this article? —Josiah Rowe 14:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC) :Well, seeing as the arrowhead dates all the way back to the 21st century, there probably shouldn't be the current language in the the article which establishes a causal relationship -- there's no reason to believe that the TOS Enterprise "adopted" the Kelvin's insignia, when there's the possibility that all the uses of the symbol were unrelated. -- Captain MKB 03:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC) That's a good point. I've tweaked a few sentences that suggest more causality than we know of definitively. We don't know whether other ships in 2233 used different insignia or not; we just know that a) in both timelines, the Kelvin used the arrowhead in 2233, and b) in the alternate reality, the arrowhead insignia was used throughout Starfleet in the 2250s, with no indication of assignment patches. Since the Kelvin evidence is equivocal, only the second part should be added to the article (somewhere). —Josiah Rowe 07:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC) ::It seems to me that a real possibility that hasn't been explored is that Starfleet itself has many different divisions that ships could belong to. The Enterprise patch might actually be a patch for an entire division, rather than a single ship, while the patch from would be from a different division. This would cover any "ambiguity" we have seen in the show. We're just assuming that the "Enterprise" insignia is unique or was unique to the Enterprise when in actuality it may not be. — Morder 07:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC) :::Keep in mind the Kelvin patch was a hollow delta, where the Enterprise delta was not, and had the department insignia; so until there is a good image of the Kelvin delta, or just more information on the whole patch issue in the new film, the info from the new timeline should be in a new section or the big info boxes, since it's different from the prime timeline. - Archduk3 07:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC) ::Actually, the Kelvin is in the prime timeline. — Morder 07:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC) :::I was talking more about the reason for adaption of the delta, since in th prime timeline it seems to be for the Enterprise and in the new timeline it seems to be for the Kelvin. - Archduk3 16:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC) ::Well, there's nothing in canon that ever stated the delta was only the Enterprise - We're just making that assumption - I posted an explanation above that would still fit in canon and explain the ambiguities (granted it's speculation but so is assuming the delta belongs to the Enterprise) — Morder 19:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Are they really Ship Assignments in TOS? While we see several different patches in TOS, they are not explained. Further, we see the same ones on SEVERAL ships , . Stating categorically they are per-ship therfore is factually dubious. It's entirely reasonable that, during the TOS era, including the era shown in The Cage, that they are fleet level, not ship level, assignment patches. If there's a canonical reference to them being explicitly per-ship, I don't recall seeing it. There is, however, lots of fanon and extended universe support for per-ship, but I don't recall it from the series bible, the shows, nor Roddenberry's published notes as per ship. – Akaramis 00:22, February 16, 2011 (UTC) :It was stated in behind-the-scenes information afterward. I seem to recall that it was a decision made in conjunction with the costuming department. The rest of the series followed through with that decision, but the Enterprise s crest/logo/patch became the Starfleet one by the time TMP was made. -- sulfur 01:09, February 16, 2011 (UTC) Alleged letter from TOS Associate Producer Robert H Justman to Costume Designer William Ware Theiss From: http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=2329 :The text at the above link was simply copied to this page; I've left the link as it may have some value for this article. 31dot (talk) 11:12, March 4, 2014 (UTC) :: Some? It blows the whole article into "Costuming Error" except for the Antares/Merchant Marine patch. Either that, or Captain Tracey and/or Commodore Decker are not regular Starfleet Officers... Akaramis (talk) 03:20, March 7, 2014 (UTC) startrek.com has an entire article on this now --Tuskin38 (talk) 23:30, October 2, 2017 (UTC) ::How are internal production notes and things of this nature usually handled when it could have a dramatic effect on what was originally perceived as canon? The Merchant Marine patch makes a lot of sense to me since the Antares was a Federation cargo ship instead of a typical Starfleet vessel. The explanation from StarTrek.com seems sounds, but how would canon handle the inconsistencies of the error?--Coasternd (talk) 16:05, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::Ummm... isn't this sort of old news? I've known about this memo for ages; it's at UCLA. --Defiant (talk) 17:05, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::Yes you're right Defiant. I corrected the bgnote I added earlier today. -- Compvox (talk) 19:59, October 11, 2017 (UTC) USS Huron patch Is it possible to get and input USS Huron assignment patch ? C-IMZADI-4 (talk) 19:14, July 5, 2017 (UTC) :Try asking at Memory Alpha:Requested files. --LauraCC (talk) 19:17, July 5, 2017 (UTC) thank you - Merci C-IMZADI-4 (talk) 20:57, July 5, 2017 (UTC)